Howdy folks!

First, a bit of introduction. I'm in my mid-thirties, married with a precocious toddler who takes up most of my time and energy outside work

I've been a diecast collector for a few years now, focusing mainly on 1:18 motorsports car models. Currently I have about 250 of these, and over time I find myself gravitating towards buying only the most detailed metal models available, primarily from the likes of CMC and Exoto. These models have parts count between 1000 and 2500, and have superb paint and tampo-printed graphics, no decals. In the last 6 months I also got a bit into 1:72 and 1:35 diecast warplanes, and have about 40 of those now. However since nearly the start of my race car model collecting I have been curious about construction diecast, cranes in particular. I almost bought a couple back in 2015 but space reasons meant I decided not to, back then. Recently having seen about a hundred Cranes Etc videos and browsing these forums I can't resist the lure of the big cranes and am going to take the plunge

What I really want to avoid is the kind of mistakes I made with my car collecting, where early on I bought a lot of models that I regretted later. Space limitations mean that in any of the diecast areas (cars, planes, or now construction) I can only have a few models, which means I want the best ones only. In terms of subject matter I am primarily interested in all manner of cranes, especially mobile cranes and crawler cranes, and would like to add a few excavators and graders. There are four important general factors for me personally that I would like to know about construction models that I buy:

* casting detail: The sharper the metal castings (or stampings, etc) the better!

* metal to plastic ratio: I generally strongly dislike plastic where it is not supposed to be. Tyres should be rubber of course, and the windscreens/glass elements should be clear plastic. However I believe that any parts which are metal on the real thing should be metal on the model also, especially so since we are talking heavy construction equipment which would never use plastic for stressed elements in the real machine.

* paint: should be smooth, flat, and correctly applied with primer etc.

* graphics: by this I mean the logos and text applied to the model. This is the one piece of info I find lacking on Cranes Etc reviews. He just says "graphics are sharp". From a lot of the videos it looks like the construction diecast manufacturers use decals. Personally I vastly prefer tampo graphics, which done well come across as much better than decals, and are far more robust. On premium models I personally believe decals have a place only on curved surfaces where tampo application would be impossible.

So, which model manufacturers would you guys recommend given the above criteria? I have a vague idea about the better ones, CCM of course are the best, but their unusual 1:48 scale puts me off buying their models. In person how much better are CCM models compared to the other good manufacturers? Are their brass models really much sharper, and are their diecast models also better than the rest of the industry?

I believe apart from CCM WSI are really good, followed by NZG. I LOVE Diecast Masters' tin packaging , but the models themselves don't seem to be the best, with a little too much plastic and not very sharp metal parts.

So, if you fine folk can let me know which manufacturers I should target and of the currently available crane models which ones are considered the best I will be very grateful. Furthermore I am quite curious if there is any manufacturer which doesn't use decals at all, or very sparingly, and instead applies tampos for the graphics on their models. I hope there are at least a couple such manus for cranes

Thanks

Hi,
I'm going to to keep it to cranes as that is what you seem to be gravitating towards and are also what I collect and have several of from various manufacturers.

Conrad - solid built and mostly metal but lack finer details. Do use printed graphics.

NZG - solid built and some finer details than Conrad. Graphics are printed. NZG seem to povide the best balance in terms of price, quality and detail.

WSI - usually very good details but do use plastic more than NZG or Conrad. For the most part they've balanced the use of plastic quite well. They have had QC issues in the past and still do, though not as bad these days.

Weiss Bros - don't have one of their models but I hear good things about the recent Manitowoc models they've made.

YCC Models - the ultimate in detail and accuracy compared to the 1:1 versions. They are highly detailed and therefore fragile. Price comes at a premium though but most of their models hold their value very well.

Hope this helps!

Paul R

Thank you WCollins, Paul R, and dain555 for your kind replies. I think the consensus is that NZG are the best all round choice, with Conrad also being good. YCC seem to be the best but a bit fragile, which is fine by me. I can take good care of the models as long as they arrive in one piece. However is it true that "Most YCC models use decals"? That would be a bummer and would put me off buying more than one or two of their models.

Once again thank you for your detailed replies. I will soon start cataloging available models and might ask here again about the models I shortlist for first purchase.

Cheers

So thanks to all your kind replies I have settled on getting the YCC Liebherr LTM 1800 Mobile Crane in Schmidbauer livery as my first diecast construction model. Of course the decision is probably a hopeless one since I don't see it available anywhere. Is the model totally sold out? And in general what stores would you guys recommend for those of us in Europe?

Hmmm ok. Just to be clear by Standard version do you mean the plain (no livery) crane? Or is there a chance the Schmidbauer will be done again?

And would you happen to know Paul if the Schmidbauer LTM 1800 uses tampos (printed graphics) or decals?

Just to also add that CCM have made(not sure if this is an ongoing venture)high quality brass cranes,expect to pay well into 4 figures for these though,I don't have any myself,there are many collectors here who do own a brass CCM item or more,hopefully they can chime in about them,

Back on planet Earth YCC would be the dogs knees when it comes to detailing,sharpness in casting,paint finish etc,they are more expensive than WSI,IMC and NZG but in reality not a whole lot more for what you get over the midfield manufacturers,

I'd go with NZG next,they don't have as big a portfolio with model cranes as Conrad but the last few they have made are extremely good,LR1600,LTM11200 and the little P&H 670,the new LTM1250 should be a cracker

I'd bunch IMC,WSI and Conrad in the same group as having a downfall of some kind,while IMC and WSI are very similar,concentrating on detail and accuracy my Demag ac250 from IMC suffered some QC issues also broken parts upon opening-a detail v's packaging issue,WSI have suffered the same in the past,Conrad aim heavily at sturdy robustness,but suffer from the detailing that IMC or WSI offer

I can't think of an earth moving model manufacturer equivilant to YCC, CCM have made some cracking models in the past but they have also made some lemons too,there was a recent spat of models arriving with small detail parts loose in the box,the CCM solely make Caterpillar models,

TMC have made some crisp looking Hitachi excavators,maybe someone can offer their experience with these,
NZG do a good job also offering a high balance on detailing,crispness of casting and paint etc for the price,
WSI have made a couple of machines too,most recently the PR776 which is a very well finished model

The only manufacturer making a range of graders is Diecast Masters,these took over from Norscot/Tonkin the fore making models more on the toy side for many years previously,Tonlin stepped in and they upped their game but not quite enough,then DM stepped in and their new models have made the biggest improvement over other manufacturers, relevant to what they were a few years ago,

I dont know of any other manufacturers other than CCM brass or YCC who compare to CMC,BBR or Exoto in the world of 1/18,I started off similar to yourself,1/18 cars then 1/50 machines and not O scale US trains have crept in

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Why is "phonetically" spelt with a "ph"?

... It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak up and remove all doubt

The complex of Newgrange was originally built between c. 3100 and 2900 BC,[2] meaning that it's aproximately 5,000 years old. According to Carbon-14 dates,[3] it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, and predates Stonehenge by about 1,000 years.

Thanks guys for the additional replies I need some help now with buying my first models.

Having gone through the entire "1:50th Cranes by Paul R" thread and seen all the cranes, I really two of them but alas they are both sold out and only available from a single eBay seller in Germany who is asking a huge amount for them, especially the LTM 1800. The two models are this YCC Models LTM 1800 "Schmidbauer" and the WSI "Nordic Crane" LTM 1350-6.1. I just love the liveries on both of them. The eBay listing prices are:

LTM 1800 "Schmidbauer" for £1,385 (!!) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352139105234
LTM 1350-6.1 "Nordic Crane" for £482 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352003674840

So, first of all what were the prices on these models when they were easily available? I suspect the LTM 1350 would have been selling for about £350, and the LTM 1800 for no more than £800. But these are pure guesses from me, so if someone here can confirm that will help me establish a baseline with which to negotiate with the seller.

The second question remains about the presence of decals on both of these models. So if owners of these models can please check when you get the chance that will help me decide on whether to spend the massive sums of money on my first crane models purchases. After all the main differentiator of the LTM 1800 Schmidbauer over the plain liveried version is the graphics, and if they are decals I can more easily pass up on them.




From doing research these are my own conclusions also, with CCM's brass models being the absolute best but of course costing a bomb and then some! I don't like however that their scale of 1/48 is out of sync with the industry standard 1/50. Furthermore I am mainly interested in mobile and crawler cranes and CCM don't have anything interesting, so YCC, NZG, and WSI are the main manufacturers I am interested in. YCC are the clear winners in this, but what concerns me is if they are using decals then I would rather not spend the massive sums involved in buying the largest YCC cranes (LTM 1800). After this are you sure NZG are better than WSI? Looking at the photos and reading the reviews it looks like WSI are slightly sharper and more detailed than NZG, but might be using more plastic.

Thanks also for the details on the excavators and graders! It looks like I'll be sticking with NZG and WSI for these as well, and Diecast Masters for graders. I do love their tin boxes so I wouldn't mind buying from them, hopefully the models are not too plastic.




I was thinking of getting WSI's models as my first mobile cranes, but you've given me second thoughts now How exactly does NZG's LTM11200-9.1 compare to WSI's LTM 1500-8.1 and LTM 1350-6.1 models?

In my opinion, the NZG LTM 11200 is a bigger and more impressive model than the 1500. It comes with more attachments and can be displayed in a ton of different positions. It gets a lot more impressive with both the luffing jib attachment and extension kits. The wheels seem to be done better with NZG as they are stiff and robust. One of my favorite liveries of the 11200 is in "Denzai". However the detail on the 1500 is a little better but the model is more fragile.

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A Millwright..... in Alberta.

Uzair,

Curious, why the passionate dislike of decals?

As someone else who is relatively "new" (~12 months) to the diecast crane scene (NZG 732 and 843, LTM11200-9.1 and LR1600/R2, respectively), with exposure to Conrad, WSI and YCC through other collectors, and prior experience with model planes, ships and cars, I'd like to offer a few points:

- Model quality cannot be exclusively represented by internet images/videos. I remain impressed with the level of detail and functionality NZG has achieved in both of the models I own.

- Unlike model cars, planes and trains, model cranes (especially those seeking to provide a level of functionality) must strike an often precarious balance between detail and practicality. As much as I am a fan of fidelity in models, I do appreciate that compromises have to be made in order to offer functionality. Case-in-point, the boom on the LTM11200-9.1 does not "faithfully" recreate the profile found on the real machine. However, the first time you rig it up with full boom extension (2 m, the real thing is 100m!), you will appreciate the decision made to forsake a little bit of fidelity for sturdiness, without an exorbitant increase in cost (for a stiffer/lighter material).

- Level of detail becomes less important when you consider the typical "viewing distance". As these particular cranes are quite large in any setup, they lend themselves to a viewing distance further than other, smaller models. Personally, I find I spend more time admiring my two cranes from a further distance than I ever did any other models (ships/planes/cars/trains). Thus, when you consider the scale and size, you may realize that some details are not even perceptible at such distances ;)

- Like most investments, you want to know that if you have an issue, you will be taken care of. I had a few minor issues with my LR1600 (missing Derrick Mast backstop on crane body, "sticky" winch 5), and NZG went well beyond what I would consider "expected" customer service in resolving what could be considered "minor" issues. I even had the privilege of working with one of their senior design engineers in trying to resolve the issues with practical, readily available (in the home) fixes.

- Functionality should also be considered. Do you want to manipulate the model? Or set it up once and leave it be? A fellow collector who happens to own a standard YCC LTM 1800 with derrick and luffer, fears the day her husband decides to move house, she is afraid to touch it not necessarily due to fragility (I "borrow" her for delicate reeving from time to time), but to the cost required to replace anything that breaks! Her LTM1800, though her pride and joy of her collection, is very much a static display, remaining unchanged/altered from the time she originally set it up. I have no qualms about interacting (carefully, of course) with either of my models, and do so quite often.

Overall, I personally find the level of detail of YCC models, though at the upper end of the spectrum, to suffer from the law of diminishing returns. Consider what it would cost to acquire a "full" model (crane + luffer/rocker + derrick) from YCC to NZG? I would consider the LTM11200-9.1 (plus luffer/rocker and extensions, YCC cylinders) offered by NZG loosely analogous to the LTM1800 (incl derrick and luffer/rocker) offered by YCC, and the former will cost you a third of the latter (unless you have some connections or find one heck of a deal - if anyone knows of one, let me know!).

Ultimately, figure out what is right for you. Many of the previous commentators here speak from significant experience. Have you checked out any of Paul R's "family" photos? I use them to demonstrate to my wife that my hobby (collecting a few individual models vice collecting liveries) could be so much more expensive!

Be prepared to enjoy hours of frustration the first time you try to reeve the A-Frame on a heavy crane